. What stood out to you in the session? What questions do you have? What’s your one key takeaway? Let’s discuss! ⚡️
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We wove in and out around the reader experience and its role in writing and editing, and I was wondering if everyone would mind taking a few minutes and filling out this survey about their Substack experience?
I'm gathering this data first and foremost to HEAR FROM YOU and also to use it as a teaching tool next month for writers who want to practice understanding reader behaviors — and how to still write from their intuition when the data (any data!) says something that maybe doesn't fit what they sense is right for their voice or mission.
As Iviana commented, such a "heartfelt and beautiful" interview. I have to agree...thank you, Amanda! There was some interest in your gut and how you said, "I am listening with my gut...I am walking to my desk with my gut." Amanda ~ first question for you ... How do you "turn on" your gut? How do you know it's working?
Oh, what a good question. So, I think it's less about "turning on" your gut and more about recognizing it's there, trying to speak up in tiny moments throughout the day.
When I think of where my gut first showed up, it was, quite literally, in recognizing how I treated my body — and how with too much strain from exacting diets or over-exercising, my writing life would also curiously go silent or feel distant. I understand now that my sense of taste is a huge way I experience the world and also how I "listen" to my senses. So I have really worked hard to make sure it (and all my senses) get some play time.
If you're trying to find connection to your gut in writing, I'd start by considering if you have a primary (or dominant) sense and how you can start being more playful and less rules-driven around how you experience your life through it. And let me know how it goes. :)
This is great advice. And I get you in how we women in particular treat our bodies that make us less able to hear what they have to say to us, and access our creativity.
Wow, this was a masterclass in editing that I really appreciated, Amanda. I was jotting down every other thing you said. You are an editor I would love to work with, I can sense that in my gut:-)
Also - is there anything you think it’s important for your listeners to know about writing that you didn’t have a chance to mention in the conversation?
Oh, how fun! So, I think the main thing is that the effort it takes to pull your work OUT of you and onto the page is going to use a very different set of muscles than the ones that are required to bring it into the world and help it reach readers. And that can take time to learn — and it can be jarring at first. But that writers who want to connect with readers are required to intentionally shepherd their work where it belongs. 🫶
This is such a good distinction: "The effort it takes to pull your work OUT of you and onto the page is going to use a very different set of muscles than the ones that are required to bring it into the world and help it reach readers." ⚡️
I'm listening to the session now and really enjoying it. Do you find editing for independent writers (like on Substack) different than editing for a magazine/newspaper/corporate? When I've had my work edited for a magazine, there was definitely an "angle" to the editing that the editor was directing me towards. How do you, as a developmental editor, keep from directing the writing to one angle or another, but to actually just help the writer find what they want to say? How do you keep yourself from editing the story into something that's done from your perspective?
What an incredible, insightful question, my friend.
So, I think it's important to establish intention with the writer first. Is this a piece they are giving to the world to connect with others? Or are they doing it as a way to release something from their bodies, lives, histories as a mode of healing? When it's the former, I definitely do some basic audience research so I understand who is engaging with their work — this helps me figure out what works well, certain editorial lines that might not be effective to cross, etc. But then I also look at the theme they're stepping into and try to consider what, objectively speaking, can we assume their audience already knows and what they need to hear most to be given something brand new.
In this way, I guess I'm realizing I have some built-in mechanisms for protecting writers from my agendas. I also know what topics are off-limits for me, full stop, because my voice is also "swimming in those waters," you know? I know I am a swimmer then, and wouldn't be an effective guide.
"I know I am a swimmer then, and wouldn't be an effective guide." MIND.BLOWN!!
I think your mechanisms to protect your clients from your biases are very helpful. I appreciated being edited when I was writing the piece I'm thinking of, and to have it polished... but I also felt like there was a definite agenda at play, and it was somewhat frustrating because I was describing my experience as a hijabi in a province that was clamping down on and mistreating Muslims. There were certain things I was not going to say and I felt like I was being led to say them. Maybe if I'd been braver? But I was also wanting to protect my family and my mental health, while I think she just wanted to get the best article out there...
Oof. That is hard. That is really hard. I definitely have met those editors before. Is that piece already published? Would you have any way of saying things your way? That’s something that Jessica DeFino does really well when she’s been published somewhere outside her own newsletter: she says “Here’s what I didn’t get to say in the interview” and publishes it for her readers. I always appreciate that kind of clarification.
Thanks for this great session - such an engaging conversation!
Amanda I only recently discovered your writing here - through the SmallStack piece - but loved getting to know you more here. Looking forward to diving into your work 😊
I've heard Sarah Fay say that personal essay writing has a hard time getting a following on Substack but I have not found that to be the case, with other personal essayists I admire and with my own steady growth in people finding my work. What do you think is most important to have a personal essay gain engagement on Substack as opposed to other platforms?
Ohhh great question. Yeah, I have seen plenty of folks do great with personal essays as their bread-and-butter, too. But I think as far as engagement, I would probably say it's knowing that you have to explain to readers what their next step is.
Sometimes we give people big, rich essays (and speaking from experience) readers kind of freeze. I've gently A/B tested what happens when I give specific directions of what to do next and when I leave it open to interpretation. Most readers here respond to directions, which personally I think is a reflection of needing to be reminded that it's a safe space to reflect and share. Our mutual friend Jeannine Ouellette does this masterfully and walks her talk quite well in that.
I end every one of my essays with question/s for the readers related to the themes I've written about or questions I asked myself. That seems to be working quite well to engage people. And this week I noticed my subscribers in the comments talking between themselves, which is exactly what I want to happen. It made my heart happy to see that. And good to be reminded of how Jeannine does this so well.
I also liked that you acknowledged how so many people haven’t had editors since elementary school (or have had to edit themselves now that they’re writing regularly). It can be a scary process, even if you’ve had editors before! There are times I go back and revise days or weeks later!
My grandmother told me when I was maybe 8 or 9: "Your letters to me don't sound like you. I want to hear what you sound like." It really planted deeply in me, and I have wondered and labored and devoted a good portion of my life to the sound of people, especially myself.
Amanda, so great to meet you here, I'm subscribing right away! 🤗 My question is this: how do you prevent the drafts you have written from your gut to turn into a piece that (almost) anyone could have written when you do the editing? I'm an editor during the day and struggle sometimes with losing my voice and tone and all the other good stuff during the editing process and end up with the same kind of articles that are still good, but don't feel that authentic and sparkly anymore. 😅
This is a really perceptive question. It's probably hard to self-diagnose, if I were to be honest. If you were to show me a before-and-after draft of something you've published, I could probably give you some ideas on how to bring a little more gentleness into the editing process.
Outside of that, I'd say that it might be REALLY helpful to just be extra silly and playful with you writing for a while and let your first drafts go out a little messier than usual. And even when you do edit, what if a quiet voice was also asking, "But wouldn't that be fun to leave it in anyways?" Work a little bit with some rebellion too. Might help work some different muscles. : )
Such an important question! I see writers in various writers' groups who polish all the individuality out of their pieces. I also do it myself, though I think I'm getting better.
Thank you Amanda for a juicy deep dive. I'm curious what is the most unexpected thing you find yourself advising writers you work with - unexpected to you, or unexpected to them? When you worked on my Cave of the Heart replies I was very startled by some of the encouraging feedback... it made me question my own assumptions about the editing process.
Ooohhh probably the same thing I tried to encourage you with: that you have good ideas, good aspects to share. And to keep practicing trusting those instincts to say it your way, from your side of the boat, so to speak, without justifying it with someone else's expertise tacked on.
Really enjoyed this chat - great questions, thank you both for your vulnerability and honesty. "Reading is where the loud, exhausting world gets quiet and my inner world can come to life. It's the only world that hasn't crushed down on me yet. The world of reading. The world of writing" ❤️ Second thing someone's said that's had me reaching for the tissues!! The other one was Dr Kelly Flanagan telling the story about the guy on the plane. Oh my XX
Thank you for a thought-provoking session. I'll be thinking about 'intimacy and restraint' all through picking up my kids from their last day of school.
And the bonus prize winner is 🥁 ... Noha Beshir. Congratulations! I will send you a DM. ⚡️
We wove in and out around the reader experience and its role in writing and editing, and I was wondering if everyone would mind taking a few minutes and filling out this survey about their Substack experience?
I'm gathering this data first and foremost to HEAR FROM YOU and also to use it as a teaching tool next month for writers who want to practice understanding reader behaviors — and how to still write from their intuition when the data (any data!) says something that maybe doesn't fit what they sense is right for their voice or mission.
https://s.surveyplanet.com/kfbm1xpx
Just completed this - actually quite thought provoking to fill out! :)
Ahhh fantastic. Thank you!
As Iviana commented, such a "heartfelt and beautiful" interview. I have to agree...thank you, Amanda! There was some interest in your gut and how you said, "I am listening with my gut...I am walking to my desk with my gut." Amanda ~ first question for you ... How do you "turn on" your gut? How do you know it's working?
Thank you Christin for asking good questions in this discussion / interview, and here in the chat.
Thank you, Michelle! That means a lot. 🫶
Oh, what a good question. So, I think it's less about "turning on" your gut and more about recognizing it's there, trying to speak up in tiny moments throughout the day.
When I think of where my gut first showed up, it was, quite literally, in recognizing how I treated my body — and how with too much strain from exacting diets or over-exercising, my writing life would also curiously go silent or feel distant. I understand now that my sense of taste is a huge way I experience the world and also how I "listen" to my senses. So I have really worked hard to make sure it (and all my senses) get some play time.
If you're trying to find connection to your gut in writing, I'd start by considering if you have a primary (or dominant) sense and how you can start being more playful and less rules-driven around how you experience your life through it. And let me know how it goes. :)
"Recognizing it's there, trying to speak up in tiny moments throughout the day." ⚡️
This is great advice. And I get you in how we women in particular treat our bodies that make us less able to hear what they have to say to us, and access our creativity.
LOVE this suggestion, Amanda. Thank you for sharing your insights with us.
Wow, this was a masterclass in editing that I really appreciated, Amanda. I was jotting down every other thing you said. You are an editor I would love to work with, I can sense that in my gut:-)
Also - is there anything you think it’s important for your listeners to know about writing that you didn’t have a chance to mention in the conversation?
Oh, how fun! So, I think the main thing is that the effort it takes to pull your work OUT of you and onto the page is going to use a very different set of muscles than the ones that are required to bring it into the world and help it reach readers. And that can take time to learn — and it can be jarring at first. But that writers who want to connect with readers are required to intentionally shepherd their work where it belongs. 🫶
This is such a good distinction: "The effort it takes to pull your work OUT of you and onto the page is going to use a very different set of muscles than the ones that are required to bring it into the world and help it reach readers." ⚡️
Thank you!
I really appreciated and enjoyed this interview. Thank you both.
Thank you, Chris! 🫶
Thank you, Chris. I really appreciate the gift of your presence today. It means a lot.
I'm listening to the session now and really enjoying it. Do you find editing for independent writers (like on Substack) different than editing for a magazine/newspaper/corporate? When I've had my work edited for a magazine, there was definitely an "angle" to the editing that the editor was directing me towards. How do you, as a developmental editor, keep from directing the writing to one angle or another, but to actually just help the writer find what they want to say? How do you keep yourself from editing the story into something that's done from your perspective?
What an incredible, insightful question, my friend.
So, I think it's important to establish intention with the writer first. Is this a piece they are giving to the world to connect with others? Or are they doing it as a way to release something from their bodies, lives, histories as a mode of healing? When it's the former, I definitely do some basic audience research so I understand who is engaging with their work — this helps me figure out what works well, certain editorial lines that might not be effective to cross, etc. But then I also look at the theme they're stepping into and try to consider what, objectively speaking, can we assume their audience already knows and what they need to hear most to be given something brand new.
In this way, I guess I'm realizing I have some built-in mechanisms for protecting writers from my agendas. I also know what topics are off-limits for me, full stop, because my voice is also "swimming in those waters," you know? I know I am a swimmer then, and wouldn't be an effective guide.
"I know I am a swimmer then, and wouldn't be an effective guide." MIND.BLOWN!!
I think your mechanisms to protect your clients from your biases are very helpful. I appreciated being edited when I was writing the piece I'm thinking of, and to have it polished... but I also felt like there was a definite agenda at play, and it was somewhat frustrating because I was describing my experience as a hijabi in a province that was clamping down on and mistreating Muslims. There were certain things I was not going to say and I felt like I was being led to say them. Maybe if I'd been braver? But I was also wanting to protect my family and my mental health, while I think she just wanted to get the best article out there...
Oof. That is hard. That is really hard. I definitely have met those editors before. Is that piece already published? Would you have any way of saying things your way? That’s something that Jessica DeFino does really well when she’s been published somewhere outside her own newsletter: she says “Here’s what I didn’t get to say in the interview” and publishes it for her readers. I always appreciate that kind of clarification.
It has! It was published back in 2020 - maybe a neat thing to revisit a la Jessica De Fino. Good idea! https://maisonneuve.org/article/2020/04/9/degrees-freedom/
Yeahhhhhhhh ... I'm going to (kindly) bug you about making this happen ... ;-)
Thanks for this great session - such an engaging conversation!
Amanda I only recently discovered your writing here - through the SmallStack piece - but loved getting to know you more here. Looking forward to diving into your work 😊
I've heard Sarah Fay say that personal essay writing has a hard time getting a following on Substack but I have not found that to be the case, with other personal essayists I admire and with my own steady growth in people finding my work. What do you think is most important to have a personal essay gain engagement on Substack as opposed to other platforms?
Ohhh great question. Yeah, I have seen plenty of folks do great with personal essays as their bread-and-butter, too. But I think as far as engagement, I would probably say it's knowing that you have to explain to readers what their next step is.
Sometimes we give people big, rich essays (and speaking from experience) readers kind of freeze. I've gently A/B tested what happens when I give specific directions of what to do next and when I leave it open to interpretation. Most readers here respond to directions, which personally I think is a reflection of needing to be reminded that it's a safe space to reflect and share. Our mutual friend Jeannine Ouellette does this masterfully and walks her talk quite well in that.
I end every one of my essays with question/s for the readers related to the themes I've written about or questions I asked myself. That seems to be working quite well to engage people. And this week I noticed my subscribers in the comments talking between themselves, which is exactly what I want to happen. It made my heart happy to see that. And good to be reminded of how Jeannine does this so well.
I also liked that you acknowledged how so many people haven’t had editors since elementary school (or have had to edit themselves now that they’re writing regularly). It can be a scary process, even if you’ve had editors before! There are times I go back and revise days or weeks later!
Thank you, Reda! I always want writers to tread softly and know they can reframe the voice that was first planted there. 🫶
My question is: what is the best piece of advice anyone has given you?
My grandmother told me when I was maybe 8 or 9: "Your letters to me don't sound like you. I want to hear what you sound like." It really planted deeply in me, and I have wondered and labored and devoted a good portion of my life to the sound of people, especially myself.
This might be my favorite ever answer to the best advice question! 🫶
Grandmothers always know what to say - and aren't afraid to be honest!
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
This is wonderful. What a wise grandmother.
Thank you!
No question just to say I learnt so much and was so lovely to hear you guys. ✨💫💗
Thank you, Claire! 🫶
Thank you, Claire! Your session earlier really got the wheels turning for me!
✨💫💥💕💕💕🦄
Amanda, so great to meet you here, I'm subscribing right away! 🤗 My question is this: how do you prevent the drafts you have written from your gut to turn into a piece that (almost) anyone could have written when you do the editing? I'm an editor during the day and struggle sometimes with losing my voice and tone and all the other good stuff during the editing process and end up with the same kind of articles that are still good, but don't feel that authentic and sparkly anymore. 😅
This is a really perceptive question. It's probably hard to self-diagnose, if I were to be honest. If you were to show me a before-and-after draft of something you've published, I could probably give you some ideas on how to bring a little more gentleness into the editing process.
Outside of that, I'd say that it might be REALLY helpful to just be extra silly and playful with you writing for a while and let your first drafts go out a little messier than usual. And even when you do edit, what if a quiet voice was also asking, "But wouldn't that be fun to leave it in anyways?" Work a little bit with some rebellion too. Might help work some different muscles. : )
Love your advice! Thank you for this wholehearted and elaborate reply. I will definitely try that! :)
Such an important question! I see writers in various writers' groups who polish all the individuality out of their pieces. I also do it myself, though I think I'm getting better.
Thank you Amanda for a juicy deep dive. I'm curious what is the most unexpected thing you find yourself advising writers you work with - unexpected to you, or unexpected to them? When you worked on my Cave of the Heart replies I was very startled by some of the encouraging feedback... it made me question my own assumptions about the editing process.
Ooohhh probably the same thing I tried to encourage you with: that you have good ideas, good aspects to share. And to keep practicing trusting those instincts to say it your way, from your side of the boat, so to speak, without justifying it with someone else's expertise tacked on.
You also mentioned that I was allowed to use I statements in a personal essay... mind blown.
Really enjoyed this chat - great questions, thank you both for your vulnerability and honesty. "Reading is where the loud, exhausting world gets quiet and my inner world can come to life. It's the only world that hasn't crushed down on me yet. The world of reading. The world of writing" ❤️ Second thing someone's said that's had me reaching for the tissues!! The other one was Dr Kelly Flanagan telling the story about the guy on the plane. Oh my XX
So powerful! 🫶
That’s a good question!
Thank you for a thought-provoking session. I'll be thinking about 'intimacy and restraint' all through picking up my kids from their last day of school.
Thank you, Alice! Let me know what you uncover. : )